Episode 22: When Actors Should Say No: Declining Auditions, Unsafe Stunts, and Managing Reps

• Transcript

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  Sean Dube: Hello and welcome, I'm Sean Dube

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  Patrick Quinlan: And I'm Patrick Quinlan.

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  Sean Dube: And this is Supporting Actors, a podcast about the art, business, and craft of acting from the perspective of two working actors.

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  Patrick Quinlan: And today we're gonna talk about when actors should say no.

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  Patrick Quinlan: I… just say no.

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  Sean Dube: Just say no.

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  Sean Dube: Very challenging topic, because I feel like… because for so much of your career, so much of it when you're getting started, you're just drilled into say yes to everything.

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  Sean Dube: Right? It's like, can you dance? Yes.

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  Sean Dube: Can you book this show? Yes. Are you free next week? Yes. Right? And that's, like, something that gets programmed into you, and I do think early on, saying yes to everything is the right call, but eventually, schedule starts filling up.

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  Sean Dube: You get to a certain spot where some of the things you used to say yes to aren't worth the experience anymore.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, definitely, I think, you know, I kind of think actors are, you know.

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  Patrick Quinlan: people pleasers, or at least they want to make it work, right? And so… We're used to taking direction.

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  Patrick Quinlan: there's a scarce amount of opportunities, and then you hear these, you know, incredible Hollywood stories of just, like, the guy showed up, and, like, it was… it was, you know, they were just gonna leave town, and they did that one last audition before quitting, and, like, you have this, like.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Fantasy in your head, so saying no becomes a real,

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  Patrick Quinlan: A real dilemma, but it can be really powerful when the time is right to know what you want out of every project and audition, and…

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  Patrick Quinlan: And opportunities.

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  Sean Dube: Yeah, and that's really what we're going to be talking about in today's episode, is how do you know when it's time to say no, right?

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  Sean Dube: So, I do believe, and I think before we get to saying no, I do think that early on you should be saying yes to as much as possible.

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  Sean Dube: And…

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  Sean Dube: There's some aspect of that that probably never goes away, but the person that you would say yes to becomes more selective.

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  Sean Dube: Right.

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  Sean Dube: Where, you know, if,

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  Sean Dube: if now it's like, if Networker Studio were to reach out to one of us, we'd be like, yes, absolutely, whatever, like, my schedule could change to fit that need. But I'm sure there's,

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  Sean Dube: once you've done a certain amount of work, there's always, like, well, I don't know that I want to do this thing, because I don't think it's going to be successful, or whatever. Like, there's always… there's a business decision that kind of goes into saying no.

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  Sean Dube: Or saying yes, right? Or sometimes it's, like, I think at a higher level.

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  Sean Dube: then, you know, it's like, I really want to work with that director.

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  Sean Dube: They make… they make great things, and that's, like, where we all hope to get to, eventually, some days, where we're, like.

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  Sean Dube: Saying no to something…

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  Sean Dube: lucrative, because we want to work on something creative, and that's… We're in the position to do that, but that's…

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  Sean Dube: That's a ways away.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, and, you know, I think…

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  Patrick Quinlan: There's a couple different aspects to, like, saying yes or no to anything, and

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  Patrick Quinlan: If you have reps, a manager, an agent.

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  Patrick Quinlan: certainly, you have to, like, run it by them, even if it, like… I think when you're out there hustling for opportunities to act, and maybe you're self-submitting, or maybe you're,

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  Patrick Quinlan: You did a bunch of, like, someone threw together some comedy sketches, and you worked on someone else's industrial, and now, like, people are throwing you some opportunities.

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  Patrick Quinlan: it gets harder to just automatically say yes, because you don't want to get taken out of the mix for something else, like…

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  Patrick Quinlan: you know, and that's, I think, what your agent or manager might say, is like, oh, if you do that.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Low-budget movie.

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  Patrick Quinlan: That, you know.

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  Patrick Quinlan: requires you to travel out of town for 2 weeks and isn't paying you any money, like, you could miss a couple auditions. I guess now it's easier because of

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  Patrick Quinlan: Virtual auditions and self-taping, but that was always…

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  Patrick Quinlan: fear, I suppose, in the past, and…

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  Patrick Quinlan: You know, the other thing, though, is I… too, the other side of it is, like, wanting to say no, wanting to be in a position to get better stuff.

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  Patrick Quinlan: And there is this idea that you have to start saying no, and no one tells… and there's no definitive rule that makes sense, it's all, like, your own personal thing, but…

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  Patrick Quinlan: when…

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  Patrick Quinlan: I… for me, I have to think about, is saying no because I… it hurts my ego to say yes to this, or is saying no actually, like, yes, I'm closed for business on this type of stuff, I'm ready, like, come back with a better offer, like, part of a negotiation.

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  Sean Dube: Right. Well, you know, I think it's worth knowing, or acknowledging that every… Yes, does cost something.

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  Sean Dube: Right. Where it could be time, it could be reputation, it could be money, right? Like, there's sometimes there's people that are like, hey, we've got this thing, and would you be a producer? Can you toss in a couple…

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  Sean Dube: $100 or $1,000, or something like that, and we can get this feature off the ground, and you're… we have a spot for you, right? Like that, there's a pay-to-play component in some capacity.

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  Sean Dube: So, like, that's… could be something, or it's, you know.

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  Sean Dube: favors, or we have kids, so that it's like, you're…

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  Sean Dube: That's a big favor to ask of…

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  Sean Dube: of the other half, you know, to be like, hey, I'm gonna go do this thing for…

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  Sean Dube: little to no money. You know, so that's, like, there's a trade-off, right? That there's that, like, there's, something there. So, like, every yes does cost something that I think becomes how you calculate what you want to do and don't want… and can't do.

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  Sean Dube: As, as things go along.

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  Patrick Quinlan: And for those opportunities that are, like, not coming through the normal channels of, like, an audition and, like, an offer from…

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  Patrick Quinlan: a network, or whatever, a casting app, like, through your agent. Like.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Because of the way that channel works, like, you get definitive time of, like, this is when you're needed, we're only paying you for these 3 days, or this 1 day, plus…

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  Patrick Quinlan: fitting, which… It's gonna be maybe a couple hours out of a day.

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  Patrick Quinlan: But… When it's… when it's not through those channels…

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  Patrick Quinlan: like, I've learned the lesson a few times of, like, it's always more time than you think.

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  Sean Dube: Yep.

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  Patrick Quinlan: there's always, like, hey, it's just gonna be one day shoot, but we're… oh, oh no, I forgot, we are gonna have a rehearsal, and, like, are you available for the table read as well? And then, like, can the costumer come to your house for a morning to, like, go through all your clothes? Like…

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  Patrick Quinlan: When you have a family, or a partner, or, you know, or whatever obligations elsewhere, outside of that workday.

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  Patrick Quinlan: It's good to know… up front where… what everything is, and I think that's where saying no becomes

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  Patrick Quinlan: a powerful tool to be like, I don't think I can make that work, and then you get people to really say, like, no, this'll be, like, your commitment.

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  Sean Dube: Yeah.

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  Sean Dube: So what… So saying no, for me, like, it's nice when you're offered something, and you…

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  Sean Dube: are in a position to, you know, we're like, I'm sorry, I can't do that, because it's, like, a role that's been confirmed, right?

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  Sean Dube: But, I feel like no shows up for me more often now in… Like, declining auditions.

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  Sean Dube: So, like, I'll get an audition, I'll read it, And it's like, I…

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  Sean Dube: Don't have an interest in this.

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  Sean Dube: And, it's gonna take me 3 hours to set my stuff up, record this thing.

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  Sean Dube: Edit it, send it off.

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  Sean Dube: is that worth doing? You know, is it worth… you know, it's like, I don't want to book this thing anyways.

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  Sean Dube: So, that's something where… you know, now I'm in that position where I'm starting to choose…

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  Sean Dube: even from an audition point of view, where it's like, I don't know, I don't see a practical use for this footage in, like, the career, right? So, like, if I'm not gonna get something out of it beyond this paycheck of a…

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  Sean Dube: maybe $1,000, then it's… I don't know that it's worth doing.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Right. Yeah, I mean, I think…

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  Patrick Quinlan: In order to say no, you have to be very clear on what you would say yes to, right? So…

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  Sean Dube: Yes.

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  Patrick Quinlan: the… framework I always had for years, and

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  Patrick Quinlan: I think it still holds true, but it's probably… Harder, given… being, being,

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  Patrick Quinlan: Having a… having a family and stuff.

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  Patrick Quinlan: But it's like, a job could…

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  Patrick Quinlan: You can say yes to a job because, like, the script's amazing, and you would love to play that part, or the team, or whatever, like, there's just, like, creatively, it's a… it's a yes, so then…

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  Patrick Quinlan: You know, time and money kind of doesn't matter.

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  Patrick Quinlan: You can say yes, because it's gonna be a good paycheck.

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  Patrick Quinlan: And then you're gonna get paid, so that's where, you know…

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  Patrick Quinlan: Saying yes to a co-star when you feel like your past co-stars might

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  Patrick Quinlan: might come in, or saying yes to a, playing a role you've played, already played a similar role, it's like, well, it's gonna…

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  Patrick Quinlan: It's gonna pay, pay well, and…

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  Patrick Quinlan: And, you know, there's potential trickle-down opportunities from there, and then, like.

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  Patrick Quinlan: you know, I think maybe the third one would be, like, can you learn something from it? So, if it's not a great script, and you're not getting paid, but is it, like, a stretch of a character for you, or something different than you've done before?

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  Patrick Quinlan: But now, like…

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  Patrick Quinlan: That's… that's how I always sort of went through and decided what to say yes and no to, and now I feel like that…

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  Patrick Quinlan: Even those creative stretches, like, then it becomes time, and it becomes, like, how is it impacting the whole life, and it's, there's… there's…

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  Patrick Quinlan: Heavier. Those aren't weighted equally now.

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  Sean Dube: Yeah.

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  Patrick Quinlan: You know.

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  Sean Dube: Well, for sure, and I know that I've, I've, had an audition recently.

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  Sean Dube: Where, like, the rate was…

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  Sean Dube: okay, the script was fine, but then, like, it shot for, like, 3 weeks. And I'm like, you know,

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  Sean Dube: It's not…

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  Sean Dube: enough where, like, if I did book this, I wouldn't want to take that time off of my…

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  Sean Dube: Like, out of my, out of my life.

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  Sean Dube: Right? Like, I wouldn't want to take the time out of my day job, I wouldn't want to be away from my family for that long.

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  Sean Dube: It's, like, not for that project, you know, so, like, there's…

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  Sean Dube: That was something that, has been relatively new for me, in terms of the… like, because that's exactly what you're talking about. It's like, do I think this would be fun? Well, they're kind of always fun, right? Like, and… so that's, like, not even worth considering.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Knock yourself into the fun, pretty much.

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  Sean Dube: Yes.

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  Patrick Quinlan: As an actor, yeah.

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  Sean Dube: Yeah, for sure. It's like, it's an opportunity. But, yeah, so… but it… you just start thinking about those other things, where it's like, is this…

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  Sean Dube: You know, the logistics of the time off, or travel, Like, is that worth doing?

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  Sean Dube: you know, some side thing, you know? It's like…

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  Sean Dube: I don't know, it's hard to define, like, what…

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  Sean Dube: What it is, but the, you know, It's…

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  Sean Dube: I don't know, I guess it's just the, like, acknowledging…

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  Sean Dube: What other things are going on in your life, and kind of, like, when do you prioritize some of these things, or when do you not?

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  Sean Dube: Because if that was a local show, sure, absolutely.

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  Sean Dube: You know?

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  Patrick Quinlan: Or maybe you did the research, and you found out the team, like, you figured out something about the project, and you're like, oh, this actually could turn into something, but…

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  Patrick Quinlan: it's nice to get… what I like about your anecdote there, too, is that you based it off

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  Patrick Quinlan: you then declined the audition, right? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, like…

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  Patrick Quinlan: That takes… takes guts, too, just being like, I'm not gonna wanna say yes to this.

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  Patrick Quinlan: I mean, you're gonna put me in a hard position if I book the part. You know, I think a lot of.

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  Sean Dube: Oh, if I booked it, then it's…

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  Patrick Quinlan: would have been auditioned first, and then crossed that bridge, and then, you know, then you're pissing everybody off, though.

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  Sean Dube: Yes.

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  Sean Dube: Well, I find, like, if I… auditioned, and I got it.

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  Sean Dube: I then have a harder time saying no.

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  Sean Dube: Because it's like, well, because I auditioned. Like, if you don't want to do it, don't audition, is my approach. And then, you know, in that, like, little feedback box, like, if it's on, if it's on Actors Access, right, it's like.

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  Sean Dube: You can explain yourself a little bit. Yeah, you can explain yourself, and your agent sees that, too. And, like, sometimes it's like, I've had, you know, I declined two things recently, and one was, like, hey, I'm not interested in this, like, vertical drama, even if, like, for, like, a base rate.

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  Sean Dube: For, you know, because that was… that was one that was, like, a 3-week shoot, and it was… I'm like, I'm not… I'm not interested in that.

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  Sean Dube: And then… There is another that,

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  Sean Dube: Where was I going with it?

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  Sean Dube: But, similar deal. It was, like, material that I wasn't interested in, so I just explained, like, hey, this is not, a material that I

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  Sean Dube: am interested in pursuing. You know, and now that my agent… my agent knows that, and I won't…

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  Sean Dube: Likely get that type of audition again.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, yeah.

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  Sean Dube: Which is great.

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  Patrick Quinlan: It's… it's… yeah, hopefully, or… or your agent will still submit you for that stuff, and…

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  Sean Dube: That's fine too, and then I'll decline it again.

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  Patrick Quinlan: case each time. Sure. Which is fine. Sure.

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  Sean Dube: Yeah.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Like, cause you never know, like, there might be a diamond in the rough there.

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  Sean Dube: Oh, for sure. Yeah, that's true. You'd almost rather look at each one

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  Sean Dube: And see what they get, versus just, like, blanket being like.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Right, like, versus, like, I, like, I read, you know, like, I think writers, talk about this all the time on social media, like…

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  Patrick Quinlan: Finding out, like, having their script go out to people, and they're trying to attach a star to, like, get it to producers, and then, like.

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  Sean Dube: Yep.

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  Patrick Quinlan: They get it to managers, and they're told the person that actor isn't interested in, and then they find out through some other… they run into that actor at some other.

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  Sean Dube: Yeah.

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  Patrick Quinlan: And the person's like, I never got the script.

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  Sean Dube: Yeah.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Like, what a, a champagne problem to have as an actor.

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  Sean Dube: Right, right, right.

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  Patrick Quinlan: Deciding for you what you do and don't get to do, or even read, but…

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  Patrick Quinlan: on the other hand, it's like, gosh, I'd really, you know, how great would it be to have

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  Patrick Quinlan: To have that control to say no to the things, or to say, yes, this is a great script, you know?

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  Sean Dube: Right.

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  Patrick Quinlan: I had a situation similar… similarly, where

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  Patrick Quinlan: I had auditioned for a show a couple times, and, like.

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  Patrick Quinlan: You know, kept getting invited back to audition, which was great.

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  Patrick Quinlan: And I don't remember if this was pre- or post-pandemic, but it feels like,

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  Patrick Quinlan: And I liked… and I had booked in that office before.

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  Patrick Quinlan: But the… the… like, the… let's say, let's imagine the fourth audition for a show that I really was… I thought, in my mind, I was like, I went in, I didn't… didn't get that part, okay, I crushed another one, didn't get it, crushed another one, didn't get it, hoping to get something juicier, and it was like…

  00:15:50:21 - 00:16:08:14

  Patrick Quinlan: No, you're going… we're looking for, like, an angry chef, because the bear was on, brand new, I think, like, an angry chef in the background of the main scene, like, just basically yelling, and the way it was written in the sides, you're like, you're not… I'm not…

  00:16:08:16 - 00:16:10:23

  Patrick Quinlan: Even featured in this, and…

  00:16:12:00 - 00:16:19:03

  Patrick Quinlan: it's a different character, but I don't get much, it's like a blip on the page, like, so you're not even gonna shoot…

  00:16:19:07 - 00:16:23:02

  Patrick Quinlan: or anything you are shooting, like, I'm not getting anything out of it.

  00:16:23:02 - 00:16:23:12

  Sean Dube: Fantastic.

  00:16:24:06 - 00:16:28:07

  Patrick Quinlan: And I was like, I'll say no, because I'd like to go in for something else.

  00:16:28:13 - 00:16:33:11

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, in this show. I don't want to get… the minute you book a show, right, or…

  00:16:34:00 - 00:16:35:08

  Sean Dube: You're done in the universe.

  00:16:35:08 - 00:16:36:17

  Patrick Quinlan: done with that. Fruit.

  00:16:36:17 - 00:16:38:09

  Sean Dube: Mostly, mostly, yeah.

  00:16:39:11 - 00:16:45:06

  Patrick Quinlan: But there's… so we covered a bunch of reasons to say no, like, to an audition. I mean, like.

  00:16:45:22 - 00:16:52:10

  Patrick Quinlan: the material, you don't feel right for it, I suppose. Which, even then, maybe you should…

  00:16:52:10 - 00:16:53:12

  Sean Dube: It's just bad.

  00:16:53:19 - 00:16:55:01

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, or sometimes, yeah, it's just…

  00:16:55:01 - 00:16:59:10

  Sean Dube: Sometimes it's just bad, and you're like, I don't know what to do with this, and I'm not interested.

  00:16:59:10 - 00:17:08:19

  Patrick Quinlan: we're recording this on Labor Day weekend, sometimes… er, now there's more standards in place from SAG, but every now and then you could get a request that feels like.

  00:17:09:03 - 00:17:12:13

  Patrick Quinlan: It disrupts your whole life just to audition, and that's.

  00:17:12:14 - 00:17:13:23

  Sean Dube: It's like, I…

  00:17:13:23 - 00:17:15:16

  Patrick Quinlan: That has to be a no these days.

  00:17:15:16 - 00:17:18:19

  Sean Dube: I feel like commercial auditions do this still.

  00:17:18:19 - 00:17:19:11

  Patrick Quinlan: Yes, no.

  00:17:19:11 - 00:17:20:16

  Sean Dube: You know, they'll be…

  00:17:21:00 - 00:17:22:23

  Patrick Quinlan: Thing they gotta renegotiate, yeah.

  00:17:23:03 - 00:17:30:06

  Sean Dube: Yeah, they definitely need to renegotiate, because they're, like, I have one, actually, that I have to do after the recording of this, where I have to, like…

  00:17:30:16 - 00:17:49:16

  Sean Dube: do, like, like, you just spoke up, so let's, like, we want to see you, like, laying down, and then we want to see you, like, in a kitchen making breakfast, and then we want to see you in work attire, and you're like, I'm like, you guys want 4 locations and, like, 3 wardrobe changes, like, for an audition? Like, this is crazy, you're, like, asking me to

  00:17:49:16 - 00:17:53:21

  Sean Dube: shoot this commercial for you. Like, it's absurd.

  00:17:53:21 - 00:17:55:20

  Patrick Quinlan: Callback will be against a blue wall.

  00:17:56:00 - 00:17:59:06

  Patrick Quinlan: That's right. Yeah. With 3 other actors.

  00:17:59:12 - 00:18:00:03

  Sean Dube: Yes.

  00:18:00:03 - 00:18:02:14

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, a prop frying pan, that's about it.

  00:18:02:18 - 00:18:16:07

  Sean Dube: Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's just… but it's like, it's so silly, like, how can you guys not imagine this? Or, like, I don't know. Like, you have a 4-minute reel of me in different locations in wardrobes, you know? It's like, you know what I look like.

  00:18:16:07 - 00:18:23:04

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, this might have to be a topic for another… I think we should save this as another topic to get into one day of, like, the,

  00:18:24:20 - 00:18:29:22

  Patrick Quinlan: Like, if you wanna ride… you gotta buy a ticket if you wanna ride the ride type of thing, and…

  00:18:29:22 - 00:18:30:12

  Sean Dube: Sure.

  00:18:30:12 - 00:18:35:04

  Patrick Quinlan: And I think it's a… I think there's arguments on both sides to be like.

  00:18:35:12 - 00:18:38:20

  Patrick Quinlan: Pissed about it, that this is the thing, and then also…

  00:18:39:11 - 00:18:44:17

  Patrick Quinlan: you know, you could say no, like, in theory, but I'm glad you're gonna do it, but…

  00:18:44:17 - 00:18:45:07

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:18:45:12 - 00:18:49:09

  Patrick Quinlan: It's a… to me, it's like a really gray issue, and it's like, God, it's…

  00:18:50:22 - 00:18:53:11

  Patrick Quinlan: it's frustrating. It's frustrating, so I think…

  00:18:53:11 - 00:18:54:03

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:18:54:03 - 00:18:58:23

  Patrick Quinlan: Actors saying no to, like, collectively saying no. Yeah.

  00:18:59:01 - 00:19:01:02

  Sean Dube: Well, and then, like, on this…

  00:19:01:11 - 00:19:10:15

  Sean Dube: Yeah, well, in this particular audition, too, they're like, yeah, feel free to send, like, 2 or 3 takes of each, like, setup, and I'm like, I'm not doing that, I'm not doing that at all. They're gonna get one.

  00:19:10:17 - 00:19:22:03

  Sean Dube: You get one. Anyways, going back to reasons why you might turn down an audition, yet you're not comfortable with the role, the material's not good, it could be a lot of prep.

  00:19:22:09 - 00:19:30:18

  Sean Dube: Either, like, it could be, like, a specific skill you either haven't done, or the prep of the audition, right, might be a lot.

  00:19:30:23 - 00:19:38:05

  Sean Dube: Sometimes the pay's not good, or the turnaround. I've definitely had this happen, where it's like, hey, this is a rush.

  00:19:38:10 - 00:19:50:13

  Sean Dube: thing, audition, and it's like, in the middle of, like, a heavy work week or something, and I'm like, I'm not gonna have time to do this properly, so I'm gonna decline. You know, it's like, and that's better than not.

  00:19:50:19 - 00:20:06:01

  Sean Dube: Nudity is another thing that I'll sometimes turn down. It's like, I'll do that for a studio shoot, or for, like, a certain budget of indie film, but for, like, a student film, yeah, there's no nudity there. You know, it's like, yeah.

  00:20:06:13 - 00:20:13:05

  Sean Dube: So there's, there's, like, you start to figure out, like, what some of those things are, where you're, like, when you read the material and you look it over.

  00:20:13:09 - 00:20:27:22

  Sean Dube: you know, what is your initial instinct? And I find that auditions, for me now kind of fall into, like, a, hell yeah, hell no category, and it makes it a little bit easier to kind of… to figure out.

  00:20:28:21 - 00:20:34:09

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, I mean, you touched on something there of, like, I think, too, like, I think it's worth repeating, just…

  00:20:34:13 - 00:20:37:14

  Patrick Quinlan: Saying no to an aud… to an audition.

  00:20:37:21 - 00:20:40:00

  Patrick Quinlan: Is a courtesy to casting.

  00:20:40:03 - 00:20:50:16

  Patrick Quinlan: Because if you are hesitant at all, right? Like, I had friends who auditioned for, like, True Blood back in the day, and, like, that had a lot of nudity. And…

  00:20:51:02 - 00:21:06:05

  Patrick Quinlan: you had to know going in if you were gonna… you had… if you auditioned, you were agreeing to be naked on camera, right? Yeah. So, if… and if you… but it was, like, a great office that cast that, and you want to be seen, and so, like, I'm sure there were…

  00:21:06:10 - 00:21:09:00

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, hundreds of actors who…

  00:21:09:06 - 00:21:12:03

  Patrick Quinlan: Said yes to the audition, and then later…

  00:21:12:08 - 00:21:19:21

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, made it a nightmare for casting and the producers, because they didn't really want to do the…

  00:21:20:09 - 00:21:36:07

  Patrick Quinlan: the, you know, full frontal, or whatever. Right. And it's like, you are… you're doing a service to casting. If you do that, and you're up front, like, they would never hold it against you. Right. The fear is that they would, but…

  00:21:36:07 - 00:21:37:12

  Sean Dube: You know, they won't.

  00:21:37:12 - 00:21:41:12

  Patrick Quinlan: In all likelihood, it's like, no, you just made their job go easier, like…

  00:21:42:02 - 00:21:48:18

  Patrick Quinlan: That's the idea. But there is this idea, I think, too, of, like, the fear of being difficult, right? Of being a difficult actor, or, like…

  00:21:48:18 - 00:21:49:11

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:21:50:01 - 00:21:54:02

  Patrick Quinlan: You wanna… I don't want to be a difficult person,

  00:21:54:02 - 00:21:54:13

  Sean Dube: No.

  00:21:54:13 - 00:21:59:06

  Patrick Quinlan: I don't want to complain, or whatever, and I know there's a long line of people waiting, but…

  00:21:59:20 - 00:22:03:16

  Patrick Quinlan: I also want… I also want to have healthy boundaries with everybody.

  00:22:03:16 - 00:22:04:05

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:22:04:05 - 00:22:05:04

  Patrick Quinlan: too, right?

  00:22:06:10 - 00:22:09:05

  Sean Dube: I think so. I do feel…

  00:22:09:17 - 00:22:25:09

  Sean Dube: this, not with casting, because I think they genuinely underappreciate… they genuinely appreciate when you could just decline something, especially if you've auditioned for other things, and they are familiar with your work a little bit, and they're, you know, as you start to develop some kind of a rapport.

  00:22:25:10 - 00:22:39:23

  Sean Dube: turning something down, they definitely appreciate, for whatever reason, whether you just can't get the time off, or you're not interested, or, you know, something of the previous things we've discussed. But I do feel this more so against my agent, for some reason.

  00:22:40:08 - 00:22:44:01

  Sean Dube: Where it's like, I don't want to decline too many things, because…

  00:22:44:17 - 00:22:47:11

  Sean Dube: I would just hate to get a call from her to be… being like.

  00:22:47:19 - 00:23:06:20

  Sean Dube: hey, what's the deal with all of this declining? You know, like, we're trying to get you seen, and you're saying no to stuff. You know, so that's a fear that I have, which I think is unfounded, and listen, I'm not declining many auditions, but, you know, there's been maybe 2 in the last 3 months that I've declined.

  00:23:06:21 - 00:23:08:01

  Sean Dube: And…

  00:23:08:05 - 00:23:17:06

  Sean Dube: But that is something that is, like, in the back of my head. I'm like, well, I hope she's okay with this, but it's like, every… I think every time, though, is an opportunity to…

  00:23:18:05 - 00:23:19:03

  Sean Dube: to…

  00:23:19:14 - 00:23:33:12

  Sean Dube: share information with why, right? Like, why are you declining this thing? So, like, whether it is helping tune what your taste is, or just availability. Sometimes it is just availability.

  00:23:33:17 - 00:23:39:04

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think, like…

  00:23:40:02 - 00:23:44:17

  Patrick Quinlan: It's tough, like, I get it, but from the representative's standpoint, I think…

  00:23:44:20 - 00:23:58:02

  Patrick Quinlan: Historically, it's like, yeah, say, we want you to do what you're comfortable with, and like, say yes, like, make it work. But now, it does feel, because there is this contraction, it feels like…

  00:23:58:03 - 00:24:10:16

  Patrick Quinlan: there's scarcity among auditions, and so I think agents and managers feel that way, too, sometimes, so I think… I've definitely gotten little memos of being like, hey.

  00:24:10:23 - 00:24:17:19

  Patrick Quinlan: You guys, please, like, don't just be, like, declining. It's like, if you have a good reason.

  00:24:18:03 - 00:24:18:19

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:24:19:00 - 00:24:24:18

  Patrick Quinlan: decline, I think, and, like, be… be… feel confident in what your reasoning is behind that, but if it's just…

  00:24:25:06 - 00:24:26:05

  Patrick Quinlan: you're…

  00:24:26:10 - 00:24:33:06

  Patrick Quinlan: with flighty, and, like, they're not 100% or something, then it's like, you know, that's not a good look, and…

  00:24:33:17 - 00:24:35:03

  Patrick Quinlan: you know, I think…

  00:24:35:14 - 00:24:44:10

  Patrick Quinlan: That's another opportunity to communicate to them, like you said, but also, like, to know what it is they want out of their actors, and…

  00:24:45:04 - 00:24:53:08

  Patrick Quinlan: Maybe that calls into, you know, as time goes on, like, the fit isn't actually working out on both sides.

  00:24:54:19 - 00:24:56:03

  Sean Dube: That's true, right?

  00:24:56:20 - 00:25:06:04

  Sean Dube: But if you don't have those conversations, if you don't share that information, there's no way for… to know if that's the case, right? So you do have to… you share it. But I do…

  00:25:06:17 - 00:25:08:15

  Sean Dube: I do think that…

  00:25:08:23 - 00:25:18:13

  Sean Dube: Especially with the downturn that we have right now, it does feel like there's a scarcity mindset, almost, where you want to, like, hold on to every opportunity.

  00:25:18:15 - 00:25:22:00

  Sean Dube: And, like, You get a little antsy.

  00:25:22:12 - 00:25:38:23

  Sean Dube: and I feel like now, you know, like the temperature's rising, right? We're all more… we're all closer to a yes than to saying yes than we've been in previous times, right? I think for a lot of us, if you haven't worked in a little bit, you're like, okay, I'll do…

  00:25:39:13 - 00:25:43:12

  Sean Dube: almost anything, you know? So, like, it starts… you get… there's, like, some…

  00:25:43:16 - 00:25:55:08

  Sean Dube: desperation, and not necessarily… I mean, maybe, hopefully it's not for a paycheck, and hopefully you have a day job, which we've talked about in a previous episode. You know, like, and you have something that's covering means, but…

  00:25:55:11 - 00:25:57:04

  Sean Dube: you know, the,

  00:25:59:01 - 00:26:05:15

  Sean Dube: you know, it's like, you do still get, like, desperation to create, to act. It is a different…

  00:26:05:18 - 00:26:14:20

  Sean Dube: medium than some of the other ways that you have control over creating, right? And, like, you need someone else to say yes to you, which means you have to also say yes to them.

  00:26:14:22 - 00:26:21:15

  Sean Dube: And so, like, there's that aspect of it that I think does sometime kick in. And…

  00:26:22:06 - 00:26:24:05

  Sean Dube: Yeah, there's a lot of people that are…

  00:26:25:01 - 00:26:28:11

  Sean Dube: You know, between you and getting on set, that you're… you…

  00:26:29:01 - 00:26:31:22

  Sean Dube: In theory, could be letting down, right?

  00:26:32:06 - 00:26:32:20

  Patrick Quinlan: Right.

  00:26:33:04 - 00:26:42:10

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, I mean, it's… I think, like… Anything that you… Really should say no to.

  00:26:43:00 - 00:26:46:00

  Patrick Quinlan: You have to almost be prepared to say no multiple times.

  00:26:46:15 - 00:26:47:07

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:26:47:07 - 00:26:48:18

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, and then it's like…

  00:26:50:07 - 00:26:57:07

  Patrick Quinlan: And also, like, you know, you can change your mind, too. Like, you can always do a little experiment. I, I tried

  00:26:57:17 - 00:27:00:17

  Patrick Quinlan: Years ago, to say no to certain jobs, and…

  00:27:00:20 - 00:27:02:21

  Patrick Quinlan: My agents at the time was like.

  00:27:03:06 - 00:27:04:23

  Patrick Quinlan: I'm gonna keep sending them to you.

  00:27:05:03 - 00:27:10:21

  Patrick Quinlan: And you can do it on a case-by-case. And I was like, okay, I'll take that advice, and…

  00:27:11:00 - 00:27:13:14

  Patrick Quinlan: And I did, a little bit, and…

  00:27:14:01 - 00:27:21:04

  Patrick Quinlan: And then, it got harder and harder after, like, doing that, saying no to things after a year or two, and then feeling like…

  00:27:21:11 - 00:27:23:22

  Patrick Quinlan: I mean, the pandemic also, like, messed up everything.

  00:27:23:22 - 00:27:26:04

  Sean Dube: Yeah, we're in a weird time.

  00:27:26:10 - 00:27:32:03

  Patrick Quinlan: So, I feel like Hollywood in general is still, and maybe actors at large are still, everyone's still sort of

  00:27:32:09 - 00:27:35:18

  Patrick Quinlan: recovering, and you're like, gosh, this recovery's been going on for…

  00:27:36:07 - 00:27:43:17

  Patrick Quinlan: 6 years now? You know, or maybe, what, like, 3 or 4? Like, if in…

  00:27:43:20 - 00:27:48:13

  Patrick Quinlan: For an actual recovery taking place, so… You know, now it's like…

  00:27:49:11 - 00:27:57:04

  Patrick Quinlan: I'm saying, I probably turned down jobs back then that I'm like, I would… I would put myself on tape for it, I would be definitely, like, keep me in the…

  00:27:57:17 - 00:28:00:19

  Patrick Quinlan: Because every audition is an opportunity to…

  00:28:01:11 - 00:28:01:19

  Sean Dube: Yep.

  00:28:01:19 - 00:28:04:22

  Patrick Quinlan: Get in front of new casting, or get in front of new producers.

  00:28:05:02 - 00:28:12:08

  Patrick Quinlan: But… But, like, that, you know, but there's still so many jobs that I wouldn't…

  00:28:12:22 - 00:28:18:17

  Patrick Quinlan: I, like, have to say no to, just… Like, it's not tenable.

  00:28:20:08 - 00:28:21:15

  Sean Dube: For sure.

  00:28:21:15 - 00:28:24:16

  Patrick Quinlan: Or you were gonna ask me to go FICOR or something like that, it's like…

  00:28:24:23 - 00:28:26:02

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:28:26:12 - 00:28:32:02

  Sean Dube: Right. So I think, to approach this from another way, too, right, let's see…

  00:28:32:04 - 00:28:35:08

  Sean Dube: A younger actor is listening to this, and they're still in yes mode.

  00:28:35:11 - 00:28:37:16

  Sean Dube: Right. You're gonna say yes to everything.

  00:28:37:21 - 00:28:42:23

  Sean Dube: At what point do you think you start saying no to unpaid work?

  00:28:43:10 - 00:28:48:00

  Sean Dube: Or start saying no to student films, or…

  00:28:48:17 - 00:28:51:18

  Sean Dube: You know, some of the smaller indie stuff.

  00:28:51:23 - 00:29:05:07

  Sean Dube: Or really time-heavy, like theater. You know, at what point do you stop needing to say yes to everything, and you can start to focus on what… and have a little bit more intention with what you try to pursue?

  00:29:07:07 - 00:29:09:06

  Patrick Quinlan: I mean, I think the,

  00:29:10:03 - 00:29:14:07

  Patrick Quinlan: I think that the answer is in your materials.

  00:29:14:20 - 00:29:21:09

  Patrick Quinlan: And so, if you've said yes to a bunch of things and Together a good… amount of footage…

  00:29:21:13 - 00:29:26:07

  Patrick Quinlan: That showcases you, Properly, in a way that matches

  00:29:26:17 - 00:29:32:09

  Patrick Quinlan: The type of material you go out for, the type of auditions you get, and it's sort of all packaged together.

  00:29:32:13 - 00:29:37:14

  Patrick Quinlan: Then you can start saying no to those projects if they don't

  00:29:38:09 - 00:29:40:18

  Patrick Quinlan: light you up creatively, right? Like…

  00:29:41:19 - 00:29:44:08

  Patrick Quinlan: If you're just coming from a standpoint of, like.

  00:29:44:19 - 00:29:48:23

  Patrick Quinlan: I need… I need jobs to get the next job, type thing.

  00:29:50:02 - 00:29:55:13

  Patrick Quinlan: if you're packaged… if you're… if you're real, it's great, but… The time will come.

  00:29:56:14 - 00:30:09:02

  Patrick Quinlan: After you've had that reel for a year or two, and you've said no to things, where you might have to start looking at some of those opportunities again, and, like, doing a student film again, because this is…

  00:30:09:08 - 00:30:20:04

  Patrick Quinlan: A new crop of student directors, and, like, maybe there's something interesting there, and you want… or maybe your look changed, or you're a little older, and you want new footage to reflect that, like…

  00:30:20:07 - 00:30:22:08

  Patrick Quinlan: I think we're constantly doing this sort of…

  00:30:23:21 - 00:30:28:02

  Patrick Quinlan: revolving door of, like, alright, I'm in. And it's like…

  00:30:28:02 - 00:30:28:14

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:30:28:14 - 00:30:34:15

  Patrick Quinlan: Okay, I didn't… my career didn't, like, magically, like, take over for me, so I gotta go back through…

  00:30:34:22 - 00:30:38:23

  Patrick Quinlan: flying, and like… Polish things up and get, you know…

  00:30:40:15 - 00:30:45:00

  Sean Dube: Yeah, I think it is a little cyclical. That's been my experience, too, and sometimes…

  00:30:46:09 - 00:30:50:03

  Sean Dube: Sometimes there's a lot of life going on, and you're getting plenty of…

  00:30:50:06 - 00:31:00:07

  Sean Dube: opportunities through your reps, maybe, right? And then you're not seeking your own so much, and then other times you're… you're heavy on trying to find something for yourself, or…

  00:31:00:11 - 00:31:03:23

  Sean Dube: You know, saying yes to… you know,

  00:31:04:18 - 00:31:18:08

  Sean Dube: to a friend that offers, like, some time… well, I mean, for a friend, I'm probably pretty much always gonna say yes. You know, friends. I do think… I think student films are always worth it, too, when it's, like, when it's slow, because you can…

  00:31:18:13 - 00:31:25:09

  Sean Dube: take some chances, and no one's gonna see that material, right? And, like, sometimes it's not useful for you, but it's, like, it can be…

  00:31:25:16 - 00:31:30:21

  Sean Dube: like an acting class that you're not paying for. But… the…

  00:31:33:00 - 00:31:48:03

  Sean Dube: Yeah, you know, I'll have different points where I'm doing a lot of submitting myself, or trying to find work, and then times where I'm content to not let that happen, or I don't have time to take on the additional, like, audition workload for things that I'm kind of just looking to fill time with.

  00:31:48:13 - 00:31:52:01

  Sean Dube: You know, because I feel like that tends to be what it is for me, mostly.

  00:31:52:13 - 00:32:01:12

  Sean Dube: is… if I have ample free time, or if I don't have a lot of things going on, I tend to try to fill that time.

  00:32:01:18 - 00:32:07:09

  Sean Dube: with… you know, self-submitting work, but otherwise, like, if things are getting busy and I'm…

  00:32:07:20 - 00:32:11:07

  Sean Dube: You know, working on… directing a… something, and then it's…

  00:32:11:15 - 00:32:28:11

  Sean Dube: it's easier to shift the priorities, right? And I feel like we talked a little bit about this in one of our recent episodes, about, like, you're kind of doing all the things all the time, you're just shifting the emphasis, and I feel like the same thing kind of happens here with saying yes or saying no, and as you decide what

  00:32:28:15 - 00:32:31:21

  Sean Dube: What you're choosing, and sometimes you're more selective, and sometimes you're not.

  00:32:32:22 - 00:32:36:11

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, yeah, I think, I think…

  00:32:37:01 - 00:32:41:10

  Patrick Quinlan: you know, yeah, it's that season. Like, I've had to say no to some theater

  00:32:41:21 - 00:32:44:00

  Patrick Quinlan: Stuff in the last couple years that,

  00:32:44:07 - 00:32:48:18

  Patrick Quinlan: It was kind of a bummer, but it made sense for my personal life to…

  00:32:49:12 - 00:32:53:23

  Patrick Quinlan: Because theater is time-intensive, and even these opportunities were…

  00:32:54:13 - 00:33:00:09

  Patrick Quinlan: Not, like, they were, like, staged… one was a staged reading, one was, like, a workshop, so they weren't.

  00:33:00:19 - 00:33:01:11

  Sean Dube: they weren't.

  00:33:01:11 - 00:33:03:13

  Patrick Quinlan: Six-week rehearsals by any means, but…

  00:33:03:21 - 00:33:09:10

  Patrick Quinlan: But it was enough to be like, oh, this is gonna make everything a little… Too hectic for…

  00:33:09:16 - 00:33:13:11

  Patrick Quinlan: for the team. And… and I even… and my… and I was…

  00:33:14:00 - 00:33:17:19

  Patrick Quinlan: thought I was on PIN for a job, so I had to say no, and whatever.

  00:33:17:22 - 00:33:18:22

  Patrick Quinlan: And…

  00:33:19:08 - 00:33:24:17

  Patrick Quinlan: you know, now I'm like, oh yeah, I do miss theater, I want to do theater again. Ugh, it sucks how long…

  00:33:25:01 - 00:33:26:07

  Patrick Quinlan: It takes, and they're like, well…

  00:33:26:07 - 00:33:27:03

  Sean Dube: Yeah, yeah.

  00:33:27:03 - 00:33:35:02

  Patrick Quinlan: there's, you know, like, maybe that's, the Hollywood Fringe Fest or something, like, doing a short run of something, or, like, getting involved with…

  00:33:35:12 - 00:33:42:08

  Patrick Quinlan: different groups that do table reads and stuff, like, that would maybe scratch the itch, so I think…

  00:33:42:21 - 00:33:46:22

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, I don't know, for me, especially the younger version of me, it was like.

  00:33:47:14 - 00:33:50:03

  Patrick Quinlan: I think I was maybe too,

  00:33:50:18 - 00:33:53:22

  Patrick Quinlan: cynical about things, and being like… so I… so that…

  00:33:54:01 - 00:33:57:01

  Patrick Quinlan: was nice, because I said no to a lot of stuff, and I didn't waste…

  00:33:57:05 - 00:34:02:02

  Patrick Quinlan: too much time, but also, it's like, well, maybe I missed out on a couple opportunities, because…

  00:34:02:20 - 00:34:03:13

  Sean Dube: You know.

  00:34:03:13 - 00:34:07:15

  Patrick Quinlan: You never… you never know who you're gonna meet, or… or…

  00:34:08:07 - 00:34:17:14

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, I think student films are great to audition for, and sometimes there's some really crafty student filmmakers who got a great casting director to be involved, or…

  00:34:17:23 - 00:34:18:13

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:34:18:13 - 00:34:22:09

  Patrick Quinlan: Producer who's got some good credits involved,

  00:34:22:18 - 00:34:29:03

  Patrick Quinlan: Or they're at, like, a great program, and you know stuff is coming out of there, so…

  00:34:30:10 - 00:34:38:17

  Sean Dube: Well, the other thing with student films, too, especially at, like, big schools, right? So, like, AFI or USC, like, they have known…

  00:34:39:02 - 00:34:40:04

  Sean Dube: Faculty.

  00:34:40:09 - 00:34:45:11

  Sean Dube: Right. That are working with these students, right? And, like, you will then…

  00:34:45:19 - 00:34:54:14

  Sean Dube: meet that faculty, and they'll be like, hey, I remember your tape for this thing, and like, so that… it could be worth it in that way, too, right? Like, every…

  00:34:54:20 - 00:35:00:23

  Sean Dube: It's a little showcase that a lot of people see that you don't know, but they remember it.

  00:35:01:10 - 00:35:02:19

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, and

  00:35:03:03 - 00:35:10:09

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, so, I don't know, I guess, yeah, to go back to that original question of, like, when do you earn the right to say no, or when…

  00:35:11:00 - 00:35:14:05

  Sean Dube: When do you start? It's… I don't even know that it's earning the right.

  00:35:14:05 - 00:35:27:00

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, I think it has to be, like, either… it's either time-related, right, of just… you don't want to spread yourself thin, and start not delivering the work you're doing, or maybe you have enough, like…

  00:35:27:09 - 00:35:34:23

  Patrick Quinlan: Materials to try to focus on that imaginary next level. And…

  00:35:36:16 - 00:35:38:08

  Patrick Quinlan: still in that, I would say, like.

  00:35:39:05 - 00:35:44:04

  Patrick Quinlan: Let it come across your desk, like, read it, look up everybody, and try to decide.

  00:35:44:10 - 00:35:45:03

  Patrick Quinlan: You know.

  00:35:45:08 - 00:35:47:03

  Patrick Quinlan: What's, what's a no and what isn't?

  00:35:49:09 - 00:35:54:05

  Sean Dube: Yeah, I think… it… what I feel like the theme that's…

  00:35:54:09 - 00:35:59:07

  Sean Dube: that I'm starting to understand as we talk more about this, is it's… it's like, it's time.

  00:35:59:10 - 00:36:00:11

  Sean Dube: interest…

  00:36:00:18 - 00:36:10:10

  Sean Dube: in benefit, right? Like, and that's trying, like, what you're looking at, like, do I have the time for this thing? Am I interested in it? What is the… what… am I gonna get a benefit out of it for the time?

  00:36:10:13 - 00:36:13:23

  Sean Dube: invested, right? And, like, those, those kind of are…

  00:36:14:08 - 00:36:17:04

  Sean Dube: I guess the three things that I'm thinking about.

  00:36:17:16 - 00:36:25:22

  Sean Dube: when I'm trying to evaluate, you know, saying yes or saying no. So what about, like, You know, you've…

  00:36:27:06 - 00:36:32:04

  Sean Dube: I know we've both worked on things that we probably wished we We had said no, too.

  00:36:32:08 - 00:36:33:06

  Patrick Quinlan: Right?

  00:36:33:06 - 00:36:39:23

  Sean Dube: But once you're in the job, you know, it's like, you're committing to it, and you're giving it 100%. But…

  00:36:40:01 - 00:36:42:01

  Sean Dube: How has that informed

  00:36:42:06 - 00:37:02:00

  Sean Dube: some of what you might say no to now. Like, what have you learned… what did you learn from those things that are, like, maybe red flags that are like, oh, if this is something on there, like, if the writer is the director, is the casting director, and there's… and it's still paying a SAG rate, and you're like, when I… Yeah, yeah, yeah.

  00:37:02:00 - 00:37:03:05

  Patrick Quinlan: self-submit, like…

  00:37:03:05 - 00:37:03:16

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:37:03:16 - 00:37:10:13

  Patrick Quinlan: one name in five fields. Like, I don't love it when the director is the casting director either, but…

  00:37:11:12 - 00:37:13:16

  Patrick Quinlan: You still, then I… you look that person up.

  00:37:14:03 - 00:37:14:19

  Sean Dube: Yeah, Mike.

  00:37:15:14 - 00:37:20:14

  Patrick Quinlan: Again, we all have to start somewhere, and like, certainly, we've worn multiple hats.

  00:37:21:01 - 00:37:29:16

  Patrick Quinlan: But, but yeah, like, to go through the act of putting out a breakdown, for… you know.

  00:37:30:05 - 00:37:35:10

  Patrick Quinlan: An ultra-low-budget, micro, short, whatever, like…

  00:37:35:10 - 00:37:37:20

  Sean Dube: Yeah, with a deferred payment, but…

  00:37:37:20 - 00:37:39:10

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah,

  00:37:40:09 - 00:37:44:08

  Sean Dube: I guess it mostly kind of falls into self-submitting, because there's…

  00:37:45:08 - 00:37:51:08

  Sean Dube: Anything coming from your reps, unless it's non-union, if you haven't gone union yet, then some of this does apply.

  00:37:52:01 - 00:38:03:16

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, I mean, some things you just won't know, right? Like, you won't… like, I definitely… I did a job, and it was in… during the pandemic, and so they were… there wasn't a lot going on, and…

  00:38:04:13 - 00:38:09:07

  Patrick Quinlan: Like, the red flag, in retrospect, was that, like.

  00:38:09:20 - 00:38:14:00

  Patrick Quinlan: I think I submitted myself, but there was no audition, I just got the job.

  00:38:14:09 - 00:38:15:00

  Patrick Quinlan: That was kind of.

  00:38:15:00 - 00:38:16:01

  Sean Dube: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

  00:38:16:01 - 00:38:23:03

  Patrick Quinlan: I was like… I mean, I didn't audition, and I… and my manager called, and she's like, hey, like…

  00:38:23:11 - 00:38:25:06

  Patrick Quinlan: You got this thing, and like…

  00:38:25:10 - 00:38:34:14

  Patrick Quinlan: She knew the guy who was, like, sort of casting, producing, and this is something he's done, and she's like, he's legit.

  00:38:34:19 - 00:38:37:11

  Patrick Quinlan: And they paid a small amount.

  00:38:37:16 - 00:38:40:11

  Patrick Quinlan: And…

  00:38:41:09 - 00:38:51:07

  Patrick Quinlan: And then the job kept going, which was really cool, really interesting, but we had to do COVID testing every time we, like, we had to, like, do a separate COVID test, like.

  00:38:51:13 - 00:38:59:04

  Patrick Quinlan: 3 days out from any shoot date. So, for getting paid, like, what, I don't know, $250 for the day or something.

  00:38:59:09 - 00:39:03:05

  Patrick Quinlan: And then having to really drive an hour to location.

  00:39:03:18 - 00:39:11:22

  Patrick Quinlan: drive a different hour on a different day to whatever COVID stations they had set up, because they were, like, all over LA.

  00:39:12:04 - 00:39:17:11

  Patrick Quinlan: Getting scenes… it became clear that, like.

  00:39:17:21 - 00:39:24:08

  Patrick Quinlan: they were gonna use whoever showed up, so, like, you'd get a call and be like, hey, can you fill… and I'd be like, yeah, because…

  00:39:24:18 - 00:39:38:01

  Patrick Quinlan: 3 out of the 5 guys you are relying on might not show up, and, like, sure enough, one day, like, everyone showed up, but, like, one guy was late, and they were like, we're going without him. It was just so run and gun, and it ended up being, like.

  00:39:38:22 - 00:39:44:04

  Patrick Quinlan: They paid everybody under, like, an ultra-low… agreement.

  00:39:44:06 - 00:39:47:17

  Patrick Quinlan: like, new media agreement, and it got released. You can get it on…

  00:39:48:14 - 00:39:50:19

  Patrick Quinlan: It went… it got released because of the…

  00:39:51:02 - 00:39:59:01

  Patrick Quinlan: because the pandemic was so weird, it got released as if it was a television show. And, like, so I fought for, like, all of my COVID payments.

  00:39:59:09 - 00:40:06:00

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah. And I sent Seth, I was like, I'm gonna get paid for each one of these, like, you guys aren't paying enough, like, I should get paid.

  00:40:06:09 - 00:40:09:09

  Patrick Quinlan: whatever, it was, like, 30% of your day rate or something forever.

  00:40:09:09 - 00:40:10:02

  Sean Dube: Right.

  00:40:10:09 - 00:40:11:17

  Patrick Quinlan: thing, and

  00:40:12:09 - 00:40:20:01

  Patrick Quinlan: And then, of course, I wasn't happy with how they edited it, and what they used, and they didn't, you know, they cut us out. But I met some cool people, and it was great, but, like.

  00:40:20:11 - 00:40:27:06

  Patrick Quinlan: If that came across my desk again, of like, hey… and we don't really know anything about this project, no idea.

  00:40:27:16 - 00:40:28:03

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:40:28:03 - 00:40:32:10

  Patrick Quinlan: be, like, where you're protected and where you're not, I'd be like, yeah, that's a pass.

  00:40:33:05 - 00:40:49:12

  Sean Dube: Yeah, I think that holds true with an experience that I've had, too. It was kind of similar things. The only other spot, like, the only other thing that I noticed for mine was that the filmmakers expected you to have equal enthusiasm for marketing their project that they had.

  00:40:49:18 - 00:40:54:06

  Sean Dube: And that was, like, that's a red flag for me, you know, especially for something that's

  00:40:54:12 - 00:41:00:04

  Sean Dube: Barely paying, you know, it's, again, like a $2.50 a day, kind of ultra-low budget.

  00:41:00:06 - 00:41:01:04

  Sean Dube: And it's like.

  00:41:01:08 - 00:41:15:13

  Sean Dube: yeah, I'm not gonna be sharing every post that you have on social media that you tag me in. That's just not gonna happen. That's like… Yeah, good job. That's work, and I don't want to annoy people. Yeah. Yeah, right, job was longer than I thought, right.

  00:41:15:18 - 00:41:17:16

  Sean Dube: And it's like, yeah…

  00:41:19:02 - 00:41:30:16

  Sean Dube: But that was one that is like a… now is a red flag, where it's like, oh, you're expecting my enthusiasm to match yours? It's like, this is your project, you're hiring me. You know, it's like…

  00:41:31:02 - 00:41:36:23

  Sean Dube: That's just another thing you start to pick up on, and it's, like, subtle things.

  00:41:37:17 - 00:41:43:07

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, I mean, from a standpoint of, like, indie films, and, like, wanting to…

  00:41:43:11 - 00:41:46:05

  Patrick Quinlan: do more and be in that. It's like…

  00:41:47:10 - 00:41:54:21

  Patrick Quinlan: I'm doing the thought exercise in this moment of, like, what would I have to change about my life to be able to do that? Whether we were making one, or whether

  00:41:55:02 - 00:41:55:20

  Patrick Quinlan: It was, like, 1A.

  00:41:55:20 - 00:41:56:10

  Sean Dube: Yep.

  00:41:56:10 - 00:42:02:14

  Patrick Quinlan: to audition for… them more. I mean, I guess if you're auditioning, In theory, there's…

  00:42:02:23 - 00:42:09:10

  Patrick Quinlan: Like, more pay than you're making your own thing or whatever, but… There's such this…

  00:42:10:00 - 00:42:15:21

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, for every project, if it's not a… it's not a… if it's not a television show or a major movie, like.

  00:42:16:04 - 00:42:21:07

  Patrick Quinlan: there is this gray zone of, like, you don't know what's gonna happen to it, so…

  00:42:21:07 - 00:42:21:21

  Sean Dube: Right.

  00:42:22:08 - 00:42:28:01

  Patrick Quinlan: You want it to be a good experience, you want to get compensated fairly, ideally, and then…

  00:42:28:08 - 00:42:33:21

  Patrick Quinlan: And then after that, you don't know, so it would be great to know up front, like, what's your guys' plan?

  00:42:34:18 - 00:42:42:15

  Patrick Quinlan: So, relationships with film festivals. Do you have a distributor? Like, what… where is this rolling out? Or is it just gonna wind up on Tubi? Which…

  00:42:43:05 - 00:42:46:09

  Patrick Quinlan: People love, and there's a lot of cool stuff out there, but like…

  00:42:46:19 - 00:42:49:05

  Patrick Quinlan: And I'd be thrilled. But, like…

  00:42:49:08 - 00:42:52:17

  Patrick Quinlan: you just want to be able to manage your expectations, I think, you know, because.

  00:42:52:17 - 00:42:53:11

  Sean Dube: Yes.

  00:42:53:11 - 00:43:00:01

  Patrick Quinlan: The reason we all say yes so often is because we have this fantasy of what that yes

  00:43:00:07 - 00:43:05:04

  Patrick Quinlan: what gate that opens. And in the reality is, it's like, it probably doesn't, like…

  00:43:05:17 - 00:43:11:08

  Patrick Quinlan: The girl from Obsession is the only one lately who's, like, blowing up, as far as…

  00:43:11:08 - 00:43:16:03

  Sean Dube: I was thinking about this, too, like, nobody knew who she was a year ago.

  00:43:16:03 - 00:43:16:17

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah.

  00:43:17:02 - 00:43:18:17

  Sean Dube: And good for her.

  00:43:18:22 - 00:43:21:14

  Sean Dube: Like, that's awesome, and she's…

  00:43:21:14 - 00:43:26:17

  Patrick Quinlan: And, like, we could do a deep dive on hers, because she was… she was going after stuff, and she clearly, like…

  00:43:26:22 - 00:43:32:21

  Sean Dube: Yeah, she's been around in things, but it's like… but no one knew who she was, right?

  00:43:32:21 - 00:43:34:05

  Patrick Quinlan: Some big projects, don't you like?

  00:43:34:15 - 00:43:35:09

  Sean Dube: Yes.

  00:43:35:09 - 00:43:36:06

  Patrick Quinlan: dang no.

  00:43:36:20 - 00:43:54:11

  Sean Dube: For sure, yeah, and also you, like, can't open, like, filmmaker Reddit without seeing her face 20 times. You know, it's… it's, all over. Good for her, right? But that's what we all hope the yes is gonna turn into, right? And, like, why we would work for scale, and…

  00:43:54:11 - 00:44:03:22

  Patrick Quinlan: She had probably a blast doing that part, and got paid, you know, a decent rate for, like, a $750,000 movie, but then…

  00:44:03:22 - 00:44:05:21

  Sean Dube: It was even a Union chute, I have no idea if it was.

  00:44:05:21 - 00:44:08:10

  Patrick Quinlan: 60 years before, you know, that came out.

  00:44:09:02 - 00:44:09:18

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:44:12:03 - 00:44:12:16

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah.

  00:44:12:19 - 00:44:13:12

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah.

  00:44:13:12 - 00:44:28:09

  Sean Dube: But anyways, but that's what we're saying yes to every time we say yes, right? Like, at least that's, like, what you hope for. And, like, that's always part of your mind, because that's the kind of… that's the industry, right? Like, that's what happens, is that, like, you're trying to find good filmmakers that

  00:44:28:15 - 00:44:32:19

  Sean Dube: capture lightning in a bottle, and it explodes. And that's, like…

  00:44:33:03 - 00:44:40:12

  Sean Dube: We all want to be on that ride. And, like, that doesn't mean we want to be famous, per se, but it's like.

  00:44:40:16 - 00:44:48:13

  Sean Dube: I want to work more. I would like to buy a house. You know, it's like… and that only happens from working. So, it's like…

  00:44:48:13 - 00:44:54:00

  Patrick Quinlan: It's the hustling, that you hope that the hustling pays off, yeah.

  00:44:54:09 - 00:44:55:12

  Sean Dube: Yeah, exactly.

  00:44:55:12 - 00:45:00:17

  Patrick Quinlan: That some things move a little smoother, and they won't run smoothly forever, but, like, they're at least…

  00:45:00:20 - 00:45:03:05

  Patrick Quinlan: The lows will be a little higher, maybe.

  00:45:03:10 - 00:45:04:09

  Patrick Quinlan: Right.

  00:45:04:09 - 00:45:04:20

  Sean Dube: Right.

  00:45:05:00 - 00:45:05:18

  Patrick Quinlan: Supposed.

  00:45:06:10 - 00:45:10:15

  Sean Dube: Alright, so let's say you've said yes to something, right? And now you're working on it.

  00:45:11:18 - 00:45:15:15

  Sean Dube: And you're there, they're asking you to do stuff that you weren't expecting.

  00:45:15:18 - 00:45:19:05

  Sean Dube: Right, so now, like, let's think about how do you say no

  00:45:19:08 - 00:45:20:20

  Sean Dube: To the job that you're on.

  00:45:21:05 - 00:45:26:03

  Sean Dube: Right, because there are ways, and sometimes this happens if you have, like,

  00:45:26:21 - 00:45:32:22

  Sean Dube: unexpected intimacy, or like, hey, we've rewritten a scene, and here you go, and now you're gonna be…

  00:45:33:02 - 00:45:44:04

  Sean Dube: You know, like, coming out of the shower or something. Or, intimacy, I'm personally less concerned about, although I can understand why people would be.

  00:45:44:07 - 00:45:50:00

  Sean Dube: But, for me, I think the biggest thing is unsafe stunts.

  00:45:50:05 - 00:45:58:08

  Sean Dube: is, like, can be huge. You know, where it's like… and they might even have a stunt coordinator, and they're just not a… you know, like, let's say it's a…

  00:45:58:23 - 00:46:02:01

  Sean Dube: Friend of the guy, you know, of the director, and…

  00:46:02:03 - 00:46:04:11

  Sean Dube: And it's like, this is nuts.

  00:46:04:22 - 00:46:08:10

  Sean Dube: you know, I'm not doing it the way you want me to do it.

  00:46:08:15 - 00:46:13:06

  Sean Dube: Right? And, like, you have to come up and find a way, which, like.

  00:46:13:11 - 00:46:26:00

  Sean Dube: you know, if you have an agent or a rep, that's a good time to call them, or to talk to SAG, right? Like, if your safety concerns really shouldn't be taken super seriously.

  00:46:26:04 - 00:46:31:22

  Sean Dube: Talking to producers, although they might be the problem. So, like…

  00:46:32:01 - 00:46:37:13

  Sean Dube: You know, because sometimes it's like the director wanted to do it right, the stunt coordinator wanted to do it right, and the producer's like.

  00:46:38:02 - 00:46:42:22

  Sean Dube: We don't have the budget for that. You know, so, like, you gotta, you know, but then there's… they haven't adjusted…

  00:46:43:12 - 00:46:48:10

  Sean Dube: how they're… they're doing it, but I think, like, you know, stunts…

  00:46:49:08 - 00:47:02:19

  Sean Dube: motion rings, cameras on booms, like, that stuff is all dangerous, and there needs to be, like, if there's not safety meetings, or firearms, that's the other one, too, right? I've been on, like, smaller sets where they're kind of, like, cavalier with…

  00:47:02:22 - 00:47:06:02

  Sean Dube: They're like, oh, they're airsoft guns. It's like, no, you still need to have…

  00:47:06:10 - 00:47:25:07

  Sean Dube: like, proper meetings, show everybody everything, because you don't know if somebody brought something, or… you know, like, even if it's an airsoft gun, the airsoft gun should not be loaded, right? We should be treating all these things as if they're real firearms. You know, and that's, like, another thing that I've seen on set, and it's something where you need to be, like…

  00:47:25:09 - 00:47:27:18

  Sean Dube: Hey, you know, and sometimes you…

  00:47:28:08 - 00:47:40:12

  Sean Dube: I've at least been in the position where I could kind of lead by example, and be like, hey, can we have a meeting about that, just to make sure that everybody's on the same page? And more than often than not, they're like, okay, yeah, sure, we were just trying to save time.

  00:47:40:19 - 00:47:42:07

  Sean Dube: Yeah, I think that's…

  00:47:42:07 - 00:47:47:15

  Patrick Quinlan: I, I… The time saver is what I think is the biggest enemy, and then, like…

  00:47:47:15 - 00:47:48:08

  Sean Dube: Yes.

  00:47:48:15 - 00:47:59:12

  Patrick Quinlan: I think as, like, in line with saying no, is… that's you saying no, no, we need to have a meeting about this. Like, no, we're not gonna just jump into this, we need…

  00:47:59:20 - 00:48:04:10

  Patrick Quinlan: We need to… We need to have… go through all the proper changes. Or…

  00:48:04:23 - 00:48:08:18

  Sean Dube: Yeah, or it's like, I'm not gonna jump through the window, I need to see it done first.

  00:48:08:23 - 00:48:17:13

  Sean Dube: Right? It's like, as an extreme example, it's like every… all stunts should be repeatable, right? And, like, they should always have one they can show you.

  00:48:17:18 - 00:48:20:13

  Sean Dube: before you do it, right? Yeah.

  00:48:20:13 - 00:48:24:22

  Patrick Quinlan: It's the same, it's the same thing for… for, like, turnaround, or…

  00:48:24:22 - 00:48:25:17

  Sean Dube: Yeah, oh yeah.

  00:48:25:17 - 00:48:30:02

  Patrick Quinlan: Depending on where you're shooting and how far your commute is home, and all the rest, like.

  00:48:30:06 - 00:48:39:13

  Patrick Quinlan: that's where SAG and their hotline, you know, assuming you did this, you booked this through, like, that it's big enough to warrant SAG, and…

  00:48:39:17 - 00:48:44:16

  Patrick Quinlan: And… and maybe your agents and managers, like, getting everyone in on it.

  00:48:44:20 - 00:48:47:16

  Patrick Quinlan: And having that team behind you.

  00:48:48:02 - 00:48:53:07

  Patrick Quinlan: And… That's who holds the producers accountable from trying to

  00:48:53:14 - 00:48:59:01

  Patrick Quinlan: you know, save… save time. Like, I… we… I was on set for,

  00:48:59:17 - 00:49:04:14

  Patrick Quinlan: Pilot once, and we… it was, like, a week shoot, and

  00:49:05:00 - 00:49:07:16

  Patrick Quinlan: I met one of the SAG reps, who, like.

  00:49:08:11 - 00:49:13:05

  Patrick Quinlan: First of all, there's only, like, 3 or 4 of them at the time, and I don't think there's many more.

  00:49:13:08 - 00:49:17:11

  Patrick Quinlan: And they divvy up all the… all the productions in…

  00:49:17:18 - 00:49:23:01

  Patrick Quinlan: they have to pop around. And I was… we were all like, we've never met one of you.

  00:49:23:10 - 00:49:24:11

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:49:24:11 - 00:49:28:07

  Patrick Quinlan: We've emailed you, or for whatever reason, I've since emailed you, you know.

  00:49:28:09 - 00:49:31:03

  Patrick Quinlan: Because you call, and you say, hey, I need to email the…

  00:49:31:07 - 00:49:37:21

  Patrick Quinlan: The rep who's in charge of this, you know, they're like, what show, and what production, and then they connect you.

  00:49:38:00 - 00:49:45:19

  Patrick Quinlan: But we were talking to them, and they were like, oh, you guys are having forced turnarounds? That's not allowed. It was like…

  00:49:45:22 - 00:49:51:02

  Patrick Quinlan: okay, like, you tell everybody, like, we were all like…

  00:49:51:15 - 00:49:55:01

  Patrick Quinlan: This is what's been going on, and they're like, yeah, they can't do that.

  00:49:56:02 - 00:50:01:07

  Patrick Quinlan: it got changed, because they were there. I don't know if someone else would have known.

  00:50:01:20 - 00:50:14:19

  Patrick Quinlan: they couldn't do that, because all of us were just pretty excited to be there, so I think if you have, if your spidey sense is going off, and like, you know, your… your kneecap is telling you it might rain, like, you have

  00:50:15:08 - 00:50:16:06

  Patrick Quinlan: say something.

  00:50:17:05 - 00:50:19:14

  Sean Dube: For sure, you definitely want to say something.

  00:50:19:17 - 00:50:23:08

  Sean Dube: What are other,

  00:50:23:17 - 00:50:41:17

  Sean Dube: opportunities, we'll put that in quotes, that you might want to say no to. So, I'm thinking back to last episode, we talked about the optimization trap, right? And there was a bunch of, you know, essentially it was actors talking about actors that are doing too much. So, listener, if you haven't heard that, it was last episode.

  00:50:41:19 - 00:50:47:11

  Sean Dube: And, that could be, like, people doing a lot of workshops, a lot of classes, a lot of showcases.

  00:50:47:23 - 00:50:54:01

  Sean Dube: You know, just anything to try to, like… they're just doing all the things, because they can't stand to sit still.

  00:50:54:05 - 00:50:57:23

  Sean Dube: When do you start saying no to some of that? And I think…

  00:50:58:19 - 00:51:04:18

  Sean Dube: I'll preempt it a little bit, where I think it kind of still touches on those three things that I talked about, which is, like.

  00:51:04:23 - 00:51:08:16

  Sean Dube: Time, interest, and benefit.

  00:51:09:04 - 00:51:16:04

  Sean Dube: And, like, you're still kind of, like, looking at that, but it's a little different, because it is a little bit more of a business context.

  00:51:17:10 - 00:51:21:14

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, I… I mean, I think it's like…

  00:51:21:22 - 00:51:28:21

  Patrick Quinlan: there's nothing wrong with doing any of those, it's just, is it gonna work for you and spread use? Then I have a friend who…

  00:51:29:02 - 00:51:35:07

  Patrick Quinlan: I… she's the best. She hits me up, she's like, hey, you wanna do class… this class together? You wanna do these workshops?

  00:51:35:18 - 00:51:36:17

  Patrick Quinlan: And…

  00:51:36:22 - 00:51:53:03

  Patrick Quinlan: I always love the invitation, and then every now and then, I get the vibe, like, are you just signing up for this because you're stressing out, and, like, a little anxious about not being busy, and now you're just trying to fill your schedule? And I just say that out front, because I was like.

  00:51:53:07 - 00:51:56:00

  Patrick Quinlan: Because I would want to do that, and I'm tempted, but…

  00:51:56:05 - 00:51:59:18

  Patrick Quinlan: I don't think I'll bring my best work forward.

  00:51:59:22 - 00:52:08:14

  Patrick Quinlan: given the current constraints I'm under, like, whether it's the time of the year where I'm working, or, you know, auditions are rolling in, it's like…

  00:52:09:12 - 00:52:18:16

  Patrick Quinlan: I don't want to be going… sitting in a workshop if I'm going to get an audition that night, that potentially, you know, just because I wanted to be proactive, or whatever.

  00:52:20:10 - 00:52:21:07

  Sean Dube: That makes sense.

  00:52:21:21 - 00:52:22:10

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah.

  00:52:22:15 - 00:52:27:07

  Patrick Quinlan: It's a tough one, though. It's, it's like… It's like…

  00:52:27:15 - 00:52:31:06

  Patrick Quinlan: And it's what we talked about on the optimization episode, but…

  00:52:31:22 - 00:52:32:12

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:52:33:01 - 00:52:44:18

  Patrick Quinlan: But, like, you know, there's also, like, short films that are, you know, it's a cool part, it's a super juicy thing, and you're like, oh, wow, I have this 3-page monologue, and it's like copy mail and credit, and that's it. Yeah.

  00:52:45:00 - 00:52:48:03

  Patrick Quinlan: Like…

  00:52:48:09 - 00:52:49:18

  Sean Dube: Can I make a party? I really love the party?

  00:52:49:18 - 00:52:57:15

  Patrick Quinlan: I really like to play this, but, like, you gotta start hunting for those red flags, and be like, is this really gonna turn out like I imagine it should, you know?

  00:52:57:15 - 00:52:58:08

  Sean Dube: Sure.

  00:52:59:05 - 00:53:00:10

  Sean Dube: What about you, buddy?

  00:53:01:15 - 00:53:11:16

  Sean Dube: Well, I mean, I kind of think similarly. For me, it's… a lot of it is time right now. Yeah. And managing time.

  00:53:11:22 - 00:53:14:19

  Sean Dube: that's been the largest…

  00:53:14:23 - 00:53:19:05

  Sean Dube: like, changed for me over the last year is I just don't have as much

  00:53:19:13 - 00:53:29:08

  Sean Dube: Free time, right? So, I would love to say yes to everything, whether it was just copied me on credit as long as it's SAG, you know? It's like…

  00:53:29:10 - 00:53:38:03

  Sean Dube: That's great. I have no problem with doing that. Yeah, because sometimes even, like, short films might be, like, a 3-day shoot, and, like, that's…

  00:53:38:12 - 00:53:42:02

  Sean Dube: kind of the upper limit as to, like, unless it's, like, if it's over a weekend.

  00:53:42:02 - 00:53:43:00

  Patrick Quinlan: Jutes? Yeah.

  00:53:43:00 - 00:53:49:16

  Sean Dube: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, on a weekend, sure, but it's like, well, especially now with a toddler, you know, it's a lot harder to…

  00:53:50:03 - 00:53:52:18

  Sean Dube: Calling a favor with the…

  00:53:52:21 - 00:54:06:07

  Sean Dube: with the other half, to be like, hey, yeah, babe, so this doesn't pay, but I'm gonna have a lot of fun while you're at home with our 2-year-old, you know? It's like… that doesn't necessarily fly, you know?

  00:54:06:07 - 00:54:10:03

  Patrick Quinlan: Even if you're working, it's still, like, a little bit of summer camp feeling, and…

  00:54:10:03 - 00:54:11:17

  Sean Dube: Oh, always, yeah.

  00:54:13:04 - 00:54:23:08

  Patrick Quinlan: Or, or, you know, I've had the reverse experience, where it's like, I really want to be here, and I want to be doing it, but I feel guilty, and so, like, or I'm worried about something at home, and so now I'm like…

  00:54:23:11 - 00:54:24:20

  Patrick Quinlan: distracted, and so…

  00:54:24:20 - 00:54:25:08

  Sean Dube: Yes.

  00:54:25:08 - 00:54:29:10

  Patrick Quinlan: be locked in either way. I think that's a great… I think we should…

  00:54:29:18 - 00:54:37:15

  Patrick Quinlan: explore that topic specifically, maybe down the road, like, actors and parent actors and… Talk to a couple people.

  00:54:37:21 - 00:54:42:02

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, too, but… Yeah, the time constraints, like…

  00:54:43:14 - 00:54:56:09

  Patrick Quinlan: I want to make a lot of stuff, I want to put myself out there, but like we talked in the optimization episode, maybe there's smaller, like, more manageable things that I can be doing for a short period of time, for a season, while…

  00:54:56:09 - 00:54:57:00

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:54:57:21 - 00:55:01:19

  Patrick Quinlan: my weight for… The right balance for other opportunities.

  00:55:02:04 - 00:55:03:23

  Patrick Quinlan: Because if a gig comes up, like.

  00:55:04:13 - 00:55:08:04

  Patrick Quinlan: If someone's like, Sean, you're flying to New York next week to film…

  00:55:08:04 - 00:55:08:14

  Sean Dube: figure it out.

  00:55:08:18 - 00:55:15:16

  Patrick Quinlan: you know, on SVU, it's like, your wife is like, yeah, great, and your work is, like, cool, like, you know, like…

  00:55:15:16 - 00:55:16:06

  Sean Dube: Yep, yep.

  00:55:16:06 - 00:55:17:11

  Patrick Quinlan: You would make it work.

  00:55:17:19 - 00:55:29:00

  Sean Dube: 100%. Well, but there's a legitimacy that comes with, like, an established TV show or something like that, right? Like, if it was a… yeah, if it's, like, a bigger show or a movie with, like, a…

  00:55:29:09 - 00:55:39:00

  Sean Dube: It's a studio picture, you know, it's like, and that's a lot easier to go to my boss and be like, hey, sorry, I need 3 weeks off, and they're gonna be like, oh my god, yes, please, you know, it's like…

  00:55:39:00 - 00:55:41:17

  Patrick Quinlan: I'd love to see the breakdown for,

  00:55:42:03 - 00:55:45:09

  Patrick Quinlan: For obsession, and just, like, you know, for some, like.

  00:55:45:09 - 00:55:46:01

  Sean Dube: Oh, yeah.

  00:55:46:01 - 00:55:49:10

  Patrick Quinlan: I know they booked some of their friends in it, or whatever, but, like.

  00:55:49:13 - 00:55:53:14

  Patrick Quinlan: I would just be curious to know… You know… what…

  00:55:53:20 - 00:56:05:10

  Patrick Quinlan: Because you would obviously get that audition, and you'd be like, this isn't gonna be a block. Like, there's just no fantasy that, like, seems realistic to what it did, right? So it's like.

  00:56:05:10 - 00:56:06:00

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:56:06:00 - 00:56:11:01

  Patrick Quinlan: So what are you getting paid, and how much time is it, and like, would you say yes or no? That would be an interesting…

  00:56:11:10 - 00:56:13:21

  Patrick Quinlan: Thought exercise, almost, like,

  00:56:13:21 - 00:56:17:20

  Sean Dube: For sure. I mean, at least those guys had, like, a body of work on YouTube.

  00:56:17:20 - 00:56:18:09

  Patrick Quinlan: Oh, yeah.

  00:56:18:09 - 00:56:20:05

  Sean Dube: out, and it was all legit.

  00:56:20:05 - 00:56:27:20

  Patrick Quinlan: And just be like, I'm not making much, and like, but this looks fun. Like, there's the guy who played the bartender in his scene, there's, like.

  00:56:27:21 - 00:56:28:08

  Sean Dube: Yeah, yeah.

  00:56:28:08 - 00:56:33:08

  Patrick Quinlan: There's these, the people at the parties, there's extras, there are, like, smaller one-liner parts.

  00:56:33:18 - 00:56:38:10

  Patrick Quinlan: But, because I think…

  00:56:39:00 - 00:56:51:01

  Patrick Quinlan: you know, but any of the leading roles, yeah, they'd be interesting to just be like, oh, it was gonna be a… it was a 3-week shoot, and it would be this amount, and night shoots… like, night shoots would be another one that would be, like.

  00:56:51:09 - 00:56:52:02

  Sean Dube: Oh, yeah.

  00:56:52:02 - 00:56:55:05

  Patrick Quinlan: Even a legitimate night shoot, like, that would still wreck.

  00:56:55:22 - 00:56:57:19

  Patrick Quinlan: Your life a little bit, you know?

  00:56:57:21 - 00:56:58:22

  Sean Dube: Oh, yeah.

  00:56:58:22 - 00:57:00:05

  Patrick Quinlan: You'd be getting paid in, like.

  00:57:00:08 - 00:57:02:10

  Patrick Quinlan: Hopefully qualifying for insurance, or whatever.

  00:57:03:14 - 00:57:07:21

  Sean Dube: Yeah, it's still, you know, to do, like, a week of overnights, ugh, it'd be awful.

  00:57:09:11 - 00:57:14:12

  Sean Dube: It'd be real tough. It'd be fun for the first night, and then it would get real hard, very fast.

  00:57:15:06 - 00:57:18:02

  Patrick Quinlan: But that's the, you know, that's the thing, I think, that we're…

  00:57:19:04 - 00:57:22:11

  Patrick Quinlan: interested in with this podcast is, sort of.

  00:57:22:17 - 00:57:27:11

  Patrick Quinlan: Demystifying and talking about the actual job job of…

  00:57:28:03 - 00:57:28:20

  Sean Dube: pursuing it.

  00:57:29:01 - 00:57:31:03

  Patrick Quinlan: Because… It's not.

  00:57:31:10 - 00:57:39:20

  Patrick Quinlan: Romantic to be like, I'm turning down auditions because I… Like, I, I, I have…

  00:57:40:11 - 00:57:44:01

  Patrick Quinlan: I will go insane if I'm not, like… or, you know.

  00:57:44:01 - 00:57:49:07

  Sean Dube: Yeah. It's an extremely privileged position to be in.

  00:57:49:11 - 00:57:55:00

  Sean Dube: to even… to be like, hey, I'm not even gonna audition for that role, right? I think that's, like…

  00:57:55:09 - 00:57:59:08

  Sean Dube: Worth acknowledging, but it is like…

  00:57:59:19 - 00:58:04:12

  Sean Dube: But it's also reality, where it's… when you've been doing it for a bit, it's like…

  00:58:04:18 - 00:58:07:11

  Sean Dube: I know I'm not gonna… I'm not interested in this piece.

  00:58:07:11 - 00:58:14:12

  Patrick Quinlan: No, but I don't think it's privileged to say no. It's like, I think every… I think more actors actually earlier should…

  00:58:15:03 - 00:58:20:09

  Patrick Quinlan: take that agency. That's the… right? You have to have… you have to take it on to yourself, and like…

  00:58:20:17 - 00:58:24:10

  Patrick Quinlan: And balance that, because when I was younger, my ego might have, might have…

  00:58:25:01 - 00:58:31:00

  Patrick Quinlan: been saying no when it really… I needed to earn some more, you know, earn some more time.

  00:58:31:03 - 00:58:33:12

  Patrick Quinlan: And pay my dues a little longer, but…

  00:58:33:21 - 00:58:36:13

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, there's… there's no perfect thing, so it's like…

  00:58:37:02 - 00:58:44:05

  Patrick Quinlan: say… you have to, like, own your truth, and I think know that, like, if you're showing up presenting the project, like, that's no good either.

  00:58:44:05 - 00:58:45:04

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  00:58:45:07 - 00:58:50:08

  Sean Dube: Well, and then there is, like, a, you know, There is a certain rate.

  00:58:50:19 - 00:58:54:02

  Sean Dube: At… at our point, you know, we're… it's like…

  00:58:54:18 - 00:59:06:16

  Sean Dube: I'll say yes to anything at the right rate, you know? And it's like… and so what is that thing for different materials? And you just have to know what that is, and if it's $200 a day…

  00:59:07:03 - 00:59:08:02

  Sean Dube: to…

  00:59:08:15 - 00:59:20:06

  Sean Dube: being something that's kind of, like, poorly written, I'm gonna probably say no to that. You know, it's just not gonna be worth the time and the frustration of trying to make that thing work if it's just not on the page, you know?

  00:59:20:10 - 00:59:21:22

  Sean Dube: So… I was talking…

  00:59:21:22 - 00:59:29:21

  Patrick Quinlan: To an older actor who's… Been around a long time, and they were, like.

  00:59:30:10 - 00:59:32:10

  Patrick Quinlan: I was helping with an audition, and then…

  00:59:32:14 - 00:59:36:08

  Patrick Quinlan: They were like, yeah, I had this offer for another job, like a guest star.

  00:59:37:13 - 00:59:42:20

  Patrick Quinlan: Like, hit show, and… They're like, it's only $11,000.

  00:59:43:06 - 00:59:45:19

  Patrick Quinlan: And to me, I'm like, that sounds great, right?

  00:59:46:03 - 00:59:47:02

  Sean Dube: beg it. Right.

  00:59:47:02 - 00:59:49:19

  Patrick Quinlan: But… To that actor, it was like.

  00:59:50:08 - 00:59:54:14

  Patrick Quinlan: People were getting paid 30 grand in the 70s to do that job.

  00:59:54:22 - 00:59:59:17

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah. So… so for $11,000, I'd have… this actor would have to, like.

  01:00:00:16 - 01:00:05:16

  Patrick Quinlan: disrupt their life for a week, fly to LA from their home, like, you know…

  01:00:05:19 - 01:00:10:06

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, do the whole thing, and then they were like, it's not worth it.

  01:00:10:12 - 01:00:12:23

  Patrick Quinlan: Not worth it for what's happening in the moment.

  01:00:13:15 - 01:00:22:16

  Patrick Quinlan: What a… what a lovely problem to have from our… from maybe our point of view, or one of the listeners, but, like, that's the same decision

  01:00:23:07 - 01:00:25:09

  Patrick Quinlan: No matter where you're at, so it's like…

  01:00:25:09 - 01:00:29:13

  Sean Dube: And you totally get it, where it's just like, there is, you know.

  01:00:29:16 - 01:00:42:12

  Sean Dube: the disruption is worth something. Right. And, like, and that's… and that… it's almost… that's what they're paying you for, because you will act for free, but you need to rearrange your life, and you need to get somewhere, and you need to wait.

  01:00:42:12 - 01:00:42:20

  Patrick Quinlan: like.

  01:00:42:20 - 01:00:43:07

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  01:00:43:07 - 01:00:48:20

  Patrick Quinlan: Alright, I've said not to… auditions or jobs or little opportunities that were like, well.

  01:00:49:01 - 01:00:57:06

  Patrick Quinlan: I'm gonna make that at work the same day. So, you kind of have to beat the day rate of my day job a little bit.

  01:00:57:14 - 01:00:58:01

  Sean Dube: Yes.

  01:00:58:01 - 01:01:06:02

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, or have a little more sweetener in there for me to, like, say yes, which is not hard, because I'm an actor, I want to say yes.

  01:01:06:02 - 01:01:22:19

  Sean Dube: Yes. Well, yeah, I think that's maybe something that is getting lost in this episode, is that, like, by and large, we do want to say yes, which is why I think it's been important that we've talked about no for an hour. So, let's, let's end with some exercises, just like, how do you…

  01:01:22:20 - 01:01:26:12

  Sean Dube: Like, just to sum up what we've been talking about, how do you decide?

  01:01:26:16 - 01:01:33:05

  Sean Dube: on a no. And, you know, it's like, do I actually want to do this, right? Like, if you were to kind of

  01:01:33:14 - 01:01:43:08

  Sean Dube: daydream for a second, like, is this a job that I actually want to work on? Is this a material that I want to share with people and have them see me in?

  01:01:43:16 - 01:01:45:01

  Sean Dube: you know, and…

  01:01:45:12 - 01:02:04:00

  Sean Dube: you'll know right away, like, a yes or no. Is this moving something forward with your career? Is it paying well? Is it exposing you to great filmmakers, right? Like, those are all things that could be a yes, or it could be… it could help you decide.

  01:02:04:19 - 01:02:08:22

  Sean Dube: Is this, do I have the time for this? That's another one, right?

  01:02:09:22 - 01:02:12:04

  Sean Dube: If you say no, what happens?

  01:02:12:19 - 01:02:21:10

  Sean Dube: if you're… I often experience relief in saying no. It's difficult to do, but then once you say it, you're like.

  01:02:21:13 - 01:02:23:03

  Sean Dube: It's off my plate. I don't have to deal with it.

  01:02:23:03 - 01:02:23:18

  Patrick Quinlan: Oh, yeah.

  01:02:23:18 - 01:02:24:03

  Sean Dube: It's like…

  01:02:24:03 - 01:02:25:06

  Patrick Quinlan: I don't think about it anymore, yeah.

  01:02:25:06 - 01:02:33:08

  Sean Dube: Yeah, it's a wonderful thing that you can give yourself. I think the other thing that I do

  01:02:33:19 - 01:02:36:06

  Sean Dube: is when I get… in Audition.

  01:02:36:16 - 01:02:41:10

  Sean Dube: I tried to sit with it for a minute, and, like, let the excitement of…

  01:02:41:17 - 01:02:51:13

  Sean Dube: C-mail, or, you know, like, casting networks. It's like, you know, letting the excitement of that opportunity disappear.

  01:02:51:16 - 01:02:58:03

  Sean Dube: Right, and try to, like, evaluate… really just take a look at this thing, like, at a nuts and bolts level of, like, what…

  01:02:58:20 - 01:03:07:23

  Sean Dube: again, do I want to do this? Can I do this? What are the upsides and downsides of this, and is this something that I am going to commit to?

  01:03:09:04 - 01:03:13:19

  Patrick Quinlan: Yeah, and I think, like, another thing I would factor in is, like, okay, if I get the job.

  01:03:14:15 - 01:03:19:04

  Patrick Quinlan: And you have to decide, like, what, is this job 1 day, or is this job three days? Like…

  01:03:19:14 - 01:03:21:17

  Patrick Quinlan: What other costs are there to me?

  01:03:21:20 - 01:03:24:14

  Patrick Quinlan: Because… is it taking off of work?

  01:03:24:17 - 01:03:33:02

  Patrick Quinlan: Is it, I gotta get a dog walker that day, or, like, call favors into friends, or, like…

  01:03:33:06 - 01:03:38:17

  Patrick Quinlan: In our case, like, what's childcare situation? Like, now my partner

  01:03:39:01 - 01:03:45:11

  Patrick Quinlan: doing all of the… all of the work at home that day, like, so, you know.

  01:03:45:18 - 01:03:50:23

  Patrick Quinlan: That's gonna cost me at least one good dinner out, you know, after the fact.

  01:03:51:03 - 01:03:52:07

  Patrick Quinlan: To celebrate, right?

  01:03:52:07 - 01:03:54:11

  Sean Dube: Like, Mike. Yes. Like…

  01:03:54:11 - 01:04:02:11

  Patrick Quinlan: You know, or maybe a babysitter, or, like, whatever the situation is, to sort of be like, how can I…

  01:04:02:17 - 01:04:07:06

  Patrick Quinlan: Make this balanced, and… And then if… and if you're like, well, if…

  01:04:07:20 - 01:04:13:06

  Patrick Quinlan: like, right now, it's like, okay, if I'm in, and my wife is in, then we're good to go.

  01:04:13:13 - 01:04:14:03

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  01:04:15:08 - 01:04:20:02

  Patrick Quinlan: I gotta go through a couple other things of, like, am I in, like, like you just listed, like…

  01:04:20:11 - 01:04:26:13

  Sean Dube: Yeah. Actually, you know, I think, you know, significant other is a big one, too, right? Like…

  01:04:26:16 - 01:04:29:19

  Sean Dube: Oftentimes, before I even audition to something, if I'm…

  01:04:30:00 - 01:04:44:19

  Sean Dube: kind of on the fence, I will often run it by her, and she's a… she's almost a surefire no, like, regard… regardless. You know, which is, like, kind of nice. It takes me off the hook a little bit. You know, but… but sometimes she'll be like, well, that

  01:04:45:01 - 01:04:48:18

  Sean Dube: That might be… And it's like, oh, okay, well, maybe I'll do it, you know?

  01:04:48:18 - 01:04:54:16

  Patrick Quinlan: this a few times for real, and then a mental exercise, like, do you like the wedding? Like, the destination wedding.

  01:04:55:04 - 01:04:55:13

  Sean Dube: Yeah.

  01:04:55:13 - 01:05:03:23

  Patrick Quinlan: or vacation test, and it's like, if I got this job and I was… would I change my vacation for this? Would I… if I got this job, would I change… would I skip this wedding?

  01:05:04:05 - 01:05:04:20

  Patrick Quinlan: Like…

  01:05:04:20 - 01:05:05:12

  Sean Dube: Yep.

  01:05:05:12 - 01:05:16:08

  Patrick Quinlan: Some weddings I would skip, and I'd be like, we're taking this job. And some, you know, maybe even some vacations, too. Like, I've definitely gotten gigs, and then my partner had to, like, entertain my parents while they were in

  01:05:18:10 - 01:05:21:14

  Patrick Quinlan: That's just the… it's like, gotta go!

  01:05:21:14 - 01:05:24:17

  Sean Dube: Yeah, duty calls, yeah.

  01:05:25:01 - 01:05:31:17

  Patrick Quinlan: And I felt bad, but, like, it, you know, it was like, yeah, no, you gotta take the job, like…

  01:05:32:02 - 01:05:34:14

  Patrick Quinlan: It was playing well, too, so it's like…

  01:05:34:14 - 01:05:35:09

  Sean Dube: Right.

  01:05:35:09 - 01:05:37:07

  Patrick Quinlan: what it is, but… You know.

  01:05:37:14 - 01:05:41:03

  Patrick Quinlan: I've probably run out of that, like, I don't get that chance again anymore.

  01:05:41:09 - 01:05:44:20

  Patrick Quinlan: Like, she's definitely like, your parents are in town that weekend.

  01:05:44:20 - 01:05:49:11

  Sean Dube: Yeah, like, you better ask for guests on set. Yeah, right. Yeah.

  01:05:50:01 - 01:05:59:00

  Sean Dube: That's really funny. But I think we've done a pretty good job of covering when to say no and why. Should we move on to some ad-libs?

  01:05:59:12 - 01:06:02:18

  Patrick Quinlan: Oh, yeah, let's do it. Am I gonna think.

  01:06:03:17 - 01:06:20:05

  Sean Dube: Alright, I can go first. So, for me, ad love this week, listeners occasionally like, I like to recommend video games, this is another one. So, I'm a big fan of motorsports, which has come up previously on the podcast, but,

  01:06:20:22 - 01:06:31:03

  Sean Dube: I'm also a fan by extension, of sim racing, and iRacing has… is, like, the biggest one in the game, it's what all the professional drivers use, whatever. It's not…

  01:06:31:09 - 01:06:39:02

  Sean Dube: It's not free. It's an expensive hobby to get into, but it is a fun one. And they are having a new season that is starting.

  01:06:39:06 - 01:06:59:01

  Sean Dube: Tomorrow. So, by the time you hear this, there'll be a new one out, there's some new content, new tracks, new trucks, cars, whatever. But the game, it's like, it's one of those where, when it goes poorly, you're like, why did I sit down to do this? And it's, like, such a disappointment, and when it goes well, it's, like, literally the most…

  01:06:59:05 - 01:07:07:21

  Sean Dube: like, the best thing on Earth. So, that's, that's gonna be my thing. iRacing is… they have a new season starting, season 4 of 2026.

  01:07:08:11 - 01:07:09:02

  Patrick Quinlan: Nice.

  01:07:09:23 - 01:07:20:00

  Patrick Quinlan: I… I… this is… I didn't… this just popped in my head, but we checked it out, yesterday. They're… the Topanga Mall, with the Westfield Topanga Mall.

  01:07:21:01 - 01:07:32:05

  Patrick Quinlan: has, a place called, like, a food court that was formerly Topanga Social, and it had… it was a really nice food court, like, really, like, Amboy Burgers was there, like, all these cool spots.

  01:07:32:14 - 01:07:35:14

  Patrick Quinlan: from all around LA, and that didn't work, apparently.

  01:07:35:20 - 01:07:46:09

  Patrick Quinlan: And that went away. But it's been replaced for a 6-month residency by a pop-up food concept called Chain, and it's the creation of

  01:07:46:21 - 01:07:51:17

  Patrick Quinlan: actor BJ Novak, interestingly enough. Okay. And it's…

  01:07:52:00 - 01:08:06:11

  Patrick Quinlan: I don't know how to explain it, but it's, it's essentially, like, collaborations with chefs. Like, Roy Choi is a big one, and they're making their version of a chain restaurant meal. So there's, like.

  01:08:06:14 - 01:08:15:09

  Patrick Quinlan: We had, like, an amazing fish sandwich. Like, it was, like, it came in a Happy Meal, like, type box, and it was like a Filet-O-Fish, but it tasted like…

  01:08:15:15 - 01:08:21:00

  Patrick Quinlan: the inside of a dumpling. Like, it was just… it was really incredible.

  01:08:21:10 - 01:08:25:04

  Patrick Quinlan: they have a Cheez-It one that doesn't look appealing to me, but…

  01:08:25:15 - 01:08:26:18

  Sean Dube: Go for it.

  01:08:26:21 - 01:08:34:11

  Patrick Quinlan: They've got, like, a dessert thing where they're doing, like, cereal mixed in with, like, different ice creams and stuff, but the,

  01:08:34:18 - 01:08:35:02

  Patrick Quinlan: The…

  01:08:35:14 - 01:08:42:16

  Patrick Quinlan: they've got… and they've got these little, like, photos and stuff, and a lot of celebrities who did this… I don't know why this is happening, or what…

  01:08:42:19 - 01:08:45:03

  Patrick Quinlan: Like, I don't fully understand, like.

  01:08:46:12 - 01:09:00:23

  Patrick Quinlan: why someone had this idea, what it will do, like, I'm like, should this… this should travel, like a museum exhibit or something, but it was good food, and if you're in LA and you want, like, something to do, like, maybe go check it out if you're a little bit of a foodie.

  01:09:01:17 - 01:09:03:21

  Sean Dube: Oh, that's… I'm gonna have to put that on the list.

  01:09:04:07 - 01:09:05:07

  Sean Dube: Yeah. Well…

  01:09:06:03 - 01:09:22:05

  Sean Dube: Listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you let… tell us about when you say yes or no. Ask at SupportingActors.com, we'd love to hear it. If you have any questions or comments, you can please reach out to us there. Please rate, review, subscribe on Spotify, Apple Music…

  01:09:22:05 - 01:09:32:16

  Sean Dube: Sorry, Apple Podcasts, I did that last episode, too. Or, YouTube, wherever you're finding this. Wherever you find us, please like, review, and comment. It does help other people find the show.

  01:09:32:16 - 01:09:34:19

  Sean Dube: I have been Jean Dube.

  01:09:35:02 - 01:09:36:06

  Patrick Quinlan: And I'm Patrick Quinlan.

  01:09:36:07 - 01:09:36:11

  Sean Dube: And tune in next week, where Patrick and I reveal the secret of what to do with your hands while on stage.

  01:09:36:11 - 01:09:42:08

  Sean Dube: And tune in next week, where Patrick and I reveal the secret of what to do with your hands while on stage.

Early in your acting career, you are taught to say yes to everything—but what happens when every "yes" starts costing you your time, sanity, and family life?

In this episode of Supporting Actors, Sean Dube and Patrick Quinlan dive into the uncomfortable necessity of learning when, why, and how to say no. We break down the fear of turning down auditions, the anxiety of communicating boundaries with your agents, and why declining a role you genuinely don't want is actually a professional courtesy to casting directors.

From spotting early red flags on micro-budget sets (like directors wearing five hats or unpaid projects expecting studio-level marketing enthusiasm) to drawing hard lines around safety, stunt repeats, and forced turnarounds, we outline practical criteria for protecting your career. Plus, we share the "Hell Yeah or Hell No" filter, the destination wedding/vacation test, and how fatherhood permanently reshapes the cost-benefit equation of working for scale.

In this episode, we cover:

• The "Yes" Trap: Unlearning early-career people-pleasing and realizing that every commitment costs time, money, or reputation.

• Auditions as Boundaries: Why declining a self-tape you have zero interest in booking saves your energy and respects casting's time.

• Talking to Your Reps: Overcoming the fear of looking "difficult" and using declined projects as a tool to refine your agent's pitching targets.

• The Scarcity Mindset: Navigating industry contractions without letting desperation drive you into predatory or exploitative gigs.

• On-Set Safety & Saying No: Standing your ground on stunt repeatability, firearm protocols, intimacy rewrites, and SAG forced turnarounds.

• The Decision Matrix: Evaluating projects by time, creative interest, and tangible career benefits—plus running the destination wedding test.

Timestamps

• 00:02 - Intro: The dilemma of saying no in a "say yes to everything" industry

• 05:02 - Every "Yes" Costs Something: Calculating trade-offs in time, money, and family

• 07:47 - Declining Auditions: Why taping for a project you don’t want is a waste of energy

• 08:39 - The Three Prongs: Great scripts, good paychecks, or creative stretches

• 12:46 - The "Hell Yeah or Hell No" Rule: Declining before you audition vs. turning down an offer

• 17:16 - Commercial Audition Burnout: Ridiculous multi-location self-tape demands

• 20:34 - Courtesy to Casting: Why honest passes prevent production nightmares later

• 22:40 - Managing the Agent Relationship: Communicating boundaries without looking "difficult"

• 28:32 - When to Stop Doing Unpaid Work: Using your reel and materials as the cutoff line

• 36:50 - Indie Set Red Flags: One person in five credits, deferred pay, and run-and-gun chaos

• 40:49 - The Marketing Expectation Trap: Low-budget productions demanding free promo

• 45:10 - Drawing Hard Lines On Set: Unsafe stunts, firearm safety, and forced turnarounds

• 53:01 - The Parent-Actor Reality: Navigating non-paying gigs with a toddler at home

• 01:04:48 - The Vacation/Wedding Test: A mental exercise to determine if a job is truly worth it

• 01:06:03 - Ad Libs: iRacing 2026 Season 4 and B.J. Novak's "Chain" pop-up in Topanga